True North Commercial REIT Reports Q2-2025 Results

REIT maintains strong leasing momentum in Q2-2025 with 291,600 square feet of new and renewed leases with a weighted average lease term of 4.4 years and 0.6% leasing spread on renewed leases

/NOT FOR DISTRIBUTION IN THE U.S. OR OVER U.S. NEWSWIRES/

TORONTO, Aug. 12, 2025 /CNW/ - True North Commercial Real Estate Investment Trust (TSX: TNT.UN) (the "REIT") today announced its financial results for the three months ended June 30, 2025 ("Q2-2025") and six months ended June 30, 2025 ("YTD-2025").

"We are pleased with the strong leasing momentum which continued during the second quarter including the renewal of 161,000 square feet with a major Canadian bank further highlighting the REIT's commitment to maintaining strong relationships with high quality credit rated tenants," said Daniel Drimmer, the REIT's Chief Executive Officer. "Our core portfolio continued to achieve strong occupancy of 93% and the REIT completed the sale of two non-core assets, which combined with the REIT substantially completing the refinancing of its 2025 debt maturities, continued to strengthen the REIT's financial position."

Q2-2025 highlights

• The REIT's core portfolio occupancy^([1]) excluding assets held for sale at the end of Q2-2025 was approximately 93% which remained above the average occupancy for the markets in which the REIT operates. The REIT also had a weighted average lease term ("WALT")⁽¹⁾ of 4.2 years excluding investment properties held for sale.
• The REIT contractually leased or renewed approximately 291,600 square feet with a WALT of 4.4 years with positive leasing spreads on renewals reported at 0.6% for the quarter.
• The REIT's Q2-2025 revenue and Net Operating Income ("NOI")⁽¹⁾ decreased relative to the three months ended June 30, 2024 ("Q2-2024") by 13% and 21% (YTD-2025 - 9% and 17%), respectively, primarily due to the disposition activity in 2024, a decrease in occupancy for the REIT's held for sale properties and termination income amounts included in Q2-2024 with no comparable amounts in Q2-2025 (the "Primary Variance Driver"), partially offset by contractual rent increases achieved by the REIT throughout 2024 and YTD-2025.
• Q2-2025 same property net operating income ("Same Property NOI")⁽¹⁾ excluding the impact of termination income in both periods, decreased by approximately 5% primarily due to a reduction in occupancy for the REIT's Alberta portfolio and the finalization of an early termination of a tenant in the REIT's Greater Toronto Area ("GTA") portfolio completed in Q1-2025, which space has been re-leased with a new tenant for a ten-year lease term commencing in 2026. Excluding the impact of these items, the REIT's Same Property NOI would have been relatively in line with Q2-2024.
• The REIT's Q2-2025 funds from operations ("FFO")⁽¹⁾ and adjusted funds from operations ("AFFO")⁽¹⁾ decreased by $3,440 and $4,063 (YTD-2025 - $4,199 and $4,894), respectively when compared to the same period in 2024 primarily due to the reduction in NOI described above and increase in interest costs.
• Q2-2025 FFO and AFFO basic and diluted per trust units ("Unit")⁽¹⁾ decreased from $0.65 and $0.66 in Q2-2024 to $0.45 and $0.42 respectively due to the reasons outlined above, partially offset by the impact of a reduction in number of outstanding Units as a result of repurchases under the the normal course issuer bid ("NCIB") program during 2024 and 2025.

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¹  This is a non-IFRS financial measure, refer to "Non-IFRS measures".

YTD highlights

• The REIT contractually leased and renewed approximately 437,500 square feet with a WALT of 4.8 years and a 0.8% increase over expiring base rents relative to the six months ended June 30, 2024 ("YTD-2024").
• The REIT continued the NCIB with YTD-2025 completing the repurchase of 110,700 Units for cash of $1,021 under 2024 NCIB at a weighted average price of $9.23 per Unit.
• On March 18, 2025, the REIT announced the reinstatement of the monthly distribution ("Distribution Reinstatement") to Unitholders, which commenced with a record date of March 31, 2025, payable on April 15, 2025, amounting to $0.0575 per Unit per month. For YTD-2025, the REIT's AFFO payout ratio was 41%.
• During YTD-2025, the REIT successfully completed $215,800 of refinancing or approximately 86% of the 2025 maturities and $4,500 of new financing at a weighted average interest rate of approximately 4.72% and weighted average term of approximately 3.1 years and has substantially finalized terms on the remaining 2025 maturities which are with lenders the REIT has longstanding relationships with. Subsequent to June 30, 2025, the REIT successfully secured a second mortgage in the amount of $4,000, with a three-year term at an interest rate of 9%. The REIT continues to focus on managing its debt maturity profile to strengthen the REIT's financial position.

Subsequent events

On July 16, 2025, the REIT completed the sale of 78 Meg Drive, London, Ontario totaling 11,300 square feet, for a sale price of $3,500.

On August 6, 2025, the REIT successfully secured a second mortgage in the amount of $4,000, with a three-year term at an interest rate of 9%.

Key performance indicators

		Q2-2025	Q2-2024	YTD-2025	YTD-2024
Number of properties^(1)				39	40
Portfolio gross leasable area ("GLA")^(1)				4,470,800 sf	4,608,800 sf
Occupancy^(1)(2)				93 %	90 %
WALT^(1)				4.2 years	4.3 years
Revenue from government and credit rated tenants^(1)				74 %	76 %
Revenue		$     28,116	$    32,325	$    59,202	$    64,789
NOI		13,803	17,521	28,468	34,107
Net loss and comprehensive loss		(11,927)	(7,548)	(11,364)	(2,410)
Same Property NOI^(3)		17,692	19,956	37,325	38,637
FFO		$      6,499	$      9,939	$      14,581	$     18,780
FFO per Unit - basic		0.45	0.65	1.01	1.20
FFO per Unit - diluted		0.45	0.65	1.00	1.20
AFFO		$      6,035	$    10,098	$     14,264	$     19,158
AFFO per Unit - basic		0.42	0.66	0.99	1.23
AFFO per Unit - diluted		0.42	0.66	0.98	1.23
AFFO payout ratio - diluted^(4)		41 %	— %	23 %	— %
Distributions declared		$      2,483	$           —	$       3,311	$           —
^(1)This is presented as at the end of the applicable reporting period, rather than for the quarter.
^(2)Represents same property occupancy excluding assets classified as held for sale as at June 30, 2025. The REIT's occupancy for all assets owned as at the end of each reporting period (including any held for sale assets) was 89% as at the end of Q2-2025 (Q2-2024 - 88%).
^(3)Represents Same Property NOI including assets classified as held for sale during Q2-2025 and Q2-2024. Same Property NOI excluding assets classified as held for sale have been presented separately in this press release.
^(4)This is a non-IFRS financial measure, refer to "Non-IFRS Financial Measures". YTD-2025 AFFO payout ratio was lower as a result of the reinstatement of the REIT's distribution commencing the March 2025 record date.

Operating results

The REIT's Q2-2025 revenue and NOI decreased relative to Q2-2024 by 13% and 21% (YTD-2025 - 9% and 17%), respectively, primarily due to the Primary Variance Driver, partially offset by contractual rent increases achieved by the REIT throughout 2024 and YTD-2025.

The REIT's Q2-2025 FFO and AFFO decreased by $3,440 and $4,063 (YTD-2025 - $4,199 and $4,894), respectively when compared to the same period in 2024 primarily due to the reduction in NOI described above and increase in interest costs.

Q2-2025 FFO and AFFO basis and diluted per Unit decreased from $0.65 and $0.66 in Q2-2024 to $0.45 and $0.42 respectively due to the reasons outlined above, partially offset by the impact of a reduction in number of outstanding Units as a result of repurchases under the NCIB program during 2024 and 2025.

YTD-2025 FFO basic and diluted per Unit decreased $0.19 and $0.20 to $1.01 and $1.00, whereas AFFO basic and diluted per Unit decreased $0.24 and $0.25 to $0.99 and $0.98 respectively, compared to YTD-2024 with variance driven by reasons noted above for Q2-2025 FFO and AFFO per Unit.

On March 18, 2025, the REIT announced the Distribution Reinstatement to Unitholders, which commenced with a record date of March 31, 2025, payable on April 15, 2025, amounting to $0.0575 per Unit per month. For YTD-2025, the REIT's AFFO payout ratio was 41%.

Same Property NOI

Occupancy^(1)		As at June 30			Same Property NOI^(1)
		2025	2024				Q2-2025	Q2-2024	Variance	Variance %
Alberta		87.8 %	93.3 %		Alberta		$      2,675	$         3,174	$        (499)	(15.7) %
British Columbia		74.8 %	100.0 %		British Columbia		541	809	(268)	(33.1) %
New Brunswick		91.8 %	86.7 %		New Brunswick		1,333	1,223	110	9.0 %
Nova Scotia		89.5 %	82.3 %		Nova Scotia		1,283	1,065	218	20.5 %
Ontario		94.8 %	95.9 %		Ontario		11,860	13,685	(1,825)	(13.3) %
Total		92.6 %	93.3 %				$      17,692	$     19,956	$     (2,264)	(11.3) %
^(1)Excluding assets held for sale.

Q2-2025 Same Property NOI excluding assets held for sale decreased by approximately 11% (YTD-2025 - 3%) compared to the same period in 2024. Q2-2025 Same Property NOI excluding the impact of termination income in both periods, decreased by approximately 5% primarily due to the decline in occupancy for the REIT's Alberta portfolio and the finalization of an early termination of a tenant in the REIT's GTA portfolio completed in Q1-2025, which space has been re-leased with a new tenant for a ten-year lease term commencing in 2026. Excluding the impact of these items, the REIT's Q2-2025 Same Property NOI would have been relatively in line with Q2-2024.

Q2-2025 Alberta Same Property NOI decreased by 16% primarily attributable to the downsizing of a tenant in the Calgary portfolio. Q2-2025 British Columbia Same Property NOI decreased by 33% primarily as a result of an expiring lease not renewed at the beginning of 2025 which was partially re-leased (23% of the non-renewed space) subsequent to June 30, 2025 with the new lease commencing by the end of 2025. Excluding these items, Q2-2025 Same Property NOI for British Columbia remained consistent relative to Q2-2024.

Q2-2025 New Brunswick Same Property NOI increased by 9% compared to Q2-2024, primarily due new lease commencements in 2024 and contractual rent increases. Occupancy is positively impacted by new leases and a lease expansion commencing in the second half of 2024. Q2-2025 Nova Scotia Same Property NOI increased by 21% as a result of the increase in occupancy between the two periods as well as contractual rent increases.

Q2-2025 Ontario Same Property NOI decreased by 13% relative to Q2-2024, primarily due to lower occupancy, driven by the early termination of a certain tenant in the REIT's GTA portfolio during Q1-2025 which space has been re-leased with a new tenant for a ten-year lease term commencing in 2026. Excluding the impact of the early termination mentioned, Q2-2025 Same Property NOI for Ontario would have been relatively consistent with the same period in the prior year.

Debt and liquidity

		June 30, 2025	December 31, 2024
Indebtedness to GBV ratio^(1)		61.8 %	61.8 %
Interest coverage ratio^(1)		2.06 x	2.21 x
Indebtedness^(1) - weighted average fixed interest rate		4.38 %	3.94 %
Indebtedness - weighted average term to maturity		2.61 years	2.16 years
^(1)This is a non-IFRS financial measure, refer to "Non-IFRS measures".

As at June 30, 2025, the REIT had access to available funds ("Available Funds")^([2]) of approximately $42,890 with its mortgage portfolio carrying a weighted average term to maturity of 2.61 years and weighted average fixed interest rate of 4.38%.

During YTD-2025, the REIT successfully completed $215,800 of refinancing or approximately 86% of the 2025 maturities and $4,500 of new financing at a weighted average interest rate of approximately 4.72% and weighted average term of approximately 3.1 years and has substantially finalized terms on the remaining 2025 maturities which are with lenders the REIT has longstanding relationships with. The REIT continues to focus on managing its debt maturity profile to strengthen the REIT's financial position.

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¹ This is a non-IFRS financial measure, refer to "Non-IFRS measures".

About the REIT

The REIT is an unincorporated, open-ended real estate investment trust established under the laws of the Province of Ontario. The REIT currently owns and operates a portfolio of 39 commercial properties consisting of approximately 4.5 million square feet in urban and select strategic secondary markets across Canada focusing on long term leases with government and credit rated tenants.

The REIT is focused on growing its portfolio principally through acquisitions across Canada and such other jurisdictions where opportunities exist. Additional information concerning the REIT is available at www.sedarplus.ca or the REIT's website at www.truenorthreit.com.

Non-IFRS measures

Certain terms used in this press release such as FFO, AFFO, FFO and AFFO payout ratios, NOI, Same Property NOI, indebtedness ("Indebtedness"), gross book value ("GBV"), Indebtedness to GBV ratio, net earnings before interest, tax, depreciation and amortization and fair value gain (loss) on financial instruments and investment properties ("Adjusted EBITDA"), interest coverage ratio, net asset value ("NAV") per Unit, Available Funds, occupancy and WALT are not measures defined by IFRS Accounting Standards ("IFRS") as prescribed by the International Accounting Standards Board, do not have standardized meanings prescribed by IFRS and should not be compared to or construed as alternatives to profit/loss, cash flow from operating activities or other measures of financial performance calculated in accordance with IFRS. FFO, AFFO, FFO and AFFO payout ratios, NOI, Same Property NOI, Indebtedness, GBV, Indebtedness to GBV ratio, Adjusted EBITDA, interest coverage ratio, adjusted cash provided by operating activities, NAV per Unit, Available Funds, occupancy and WALT as computed by the REIT may not be comparable to similar measures presented by other issuers. The REIT uses these measures to better assess the REIT's underlying performance and provides these additional measures so that investors may do the same. Details on non-IFRS measures are set out in the REIT's Management's Discussion and Analysis for Q2-2025 and the Annual Information Form are available on the REIT's profile at www.sedarplus.ca.

Reconciliation of non-IFRS financial measures

The following tables reconcile the non-IFRS financial measures to the comparable IFRS measures for Q2-2025, Q2-2024, YTD-2025 and YTD-2024. These non-IFRS financial measures do not have any standardized meanings prescribed by IFRS and may not be comparable to similar measures presented by other issuers.

NOI

The following table calculates the REIT's NOI, a non-IFRS financial measure:

		Q2-2025	Q2-2024	YTD-2025	YTD-2024
Revenue		$      28,116	$     32,325	$    59,202	$     64,789
Expenses:
Property operating		(9,387)	(9,876)	(20,875)	(20,678)
Realty taxes		(4,926)	(4,928)	(9,859)	(10,004)
NOI		$     13,803	$      17,521	$     28,468	$      34,107

Same Property NOI

Same Property NOI is measured as the NOI for the properties owned and operated by the REIT for the current and comparative period. The following table reconciles the REIT's Same Property NOI to NOI:

		Q2-2025	Q2-2024	YTD-2025	YTD-2024
Number of properties		39	39	39	39
Revenue		$      28,117	$      31,495	$    59,202	$     62,372
Expenses:
Property operating		(9,328)	(9,529)	(20,701)	(19,656)
Realty taxes		(4,853)	(4,731)	(9,711)	(9,548)
		$      13,936	$      17,235	$     28,790	$      33,168
Add:
Amortization of leasing costs and tenant inducements		3,175	2,439	6,686	4,864
Straight-line rent		297	922	1,123	1,873
Same Property NOI		$      17,408	$    20,596	$     36,599	$    39,905
Less: NOI related to properties held for sale included in the above		(284)	640	(726)	1,268
Same Property NOI excluding investment properties held for sale		$      17,692	$     19,956	$     37,325	$     38,637
Reconciliation to condensed consolidated interim financial statements:
Acquisition, dispositions and investment properties held for sale		(417)	938	(1,048)	2,249
Amortization of leasing costs and tenant inducements		(3,175)	(2,440)	(6,686)	(4,880)
Straight-line rent		(297)	(933)	(1,123)	(1,899)
NOI		$     13,803	$      17,521	$     28,468	$      34,107

FFO and AFFO

The following table reconciles the REIT's FFO and AFFO to net loss and comprehensive loss, for Q2-2025, Q2-2024, YTD-2025 and YTD-2024:

		Q2-2025	Q2-2024	YTD-2025	YTD-2024
Net loss and comprehensive loss		$   (11,927)	$   (7,548)	$   (11,364)	$    (2,410)
Add (deduct):
Fair value adjustment of Unit-based compensation		30	154	(36)	108
Fair value adjustment of investment properties and investment properties held for sale		14,780	12,703	18,612	14,601
Fair value adjustment of Class B LP Units		(264)	(311)	(570)	(648)
Transaction costs on sale of investment properties		539	1,969	539	1,969
Distributions on Class B LP Units		72	—	96	—
Unrealized loss on change in fair value of derivative instruments		93	532	618	279
Amortization of leasing costs and tenant inducements		3,176	2,440	6,686	4,881
FFO		$    6,499	$    9,939	$    14,581	$   18,780
Add (deduct):
Unit-based compensation expense		38	(86)	160	(5)
Amortization of financing costs		358	482	688	845
Amortization of mortgage discounts		(15)	(8)	(18)	(16)
Instalment note receipts		10	12	21	24
Straight-line rent		297	933	1,123	1,899
Capital reserve		(1,152)	(1,174)	(2,291)	(2,369)
AFFO		$    6,035	$   10,098	$   14,264	$    19,158
FFO per Unit:
Basic		$0.45	$0.65	$1.01	$1.20
Diluted		0.45	0.65	1.00	1.20
AFFO per Unit:
Basic		$      0.42	$      0.66	$      0.99	$       1.23
Diluted		0.42	0.66	0.98	1.23
AFFO payout ratio:
Basic		41 %	— %	23 %	— %
Diluted		41 %	— %	23 %	— %
Distributions declared		$    2,483	$         —	$      3,311	$         —
Weighted average Units outstanding (000s):
Basic		14,398	15,246	14,428	15,589
Add:
Unit options and incentive Units		96	13	87	12
Diluted		14,494	15,259	14,515	15,601

Indebtedness to GBV ratio

The table below calculates the REIT's Indebtedness to GBV ratio as at June 30, 2025 and December 31, 2024. The Indebtedness to GBV ratio is calculated by dividing the Indebtedness by GBV:

		June 30, 2025	December 31, 2024
Total assets		$        1,216,372	$       1,240,231
Deferred financing costs		5,481	6,308
GBV^(1)		$       1,221,853	$       1,246,539
Mortgage payable		$         710,200	$         737,574
Credit facility ("Credit Facility")		42,575	30,170
Unamortized financing costs and mark to market mortgage adjustments		2,140	2,264
Indebtedness		$         754,915	$        770,008
Indebtedness to GBV ratio		61.8 %	61.8 %
^(1) This is a non-IFRS financial measure, refer to "Non-IFRS measures".

Adjusted EBITDA

The table below reconciles the REIT's Adjusted EBITDA to net loss and comprehensive loss for the twelve months period ended June 30, 2025 and 2024:

		Twelve months ended June 30
		2025	2024
Net loss and comprehensive loss		$           (29,907)	$            (50,819)
Add (deduct):
Interest expense		32,117	33,326
Fair value adjustment of Unit-based compensation		53	(31)
Transaction costs on sale of investment properties		539	3,101
Fair value adjustment of investment properties and investment properties held for sale		47,219	76,502
Fair value adjustment of Class B LP Units		292	(2,188)
Distributions on Class B LP Units		96	241
Unrealized loss on change in fair value of derivative instruments		2,447	2,132
Amortization of leasing costs, tenant inducements, mortgage premium and financing costs		13,310	11,303
Adjusted EBITDA^(1)		$             66,166	$             73,567
^(1) This is a non-IFRS financial measure, refer to "Non-IFRS measures".

Interest coverage ratio

The table below calculates the REIT's interest coverage ratio for the twelve months period ended June 30, 2025 and 2024. The interest coverage ratio is calculated by dividing Adjusted EBITDA by interest expense.

		Twelve months ended June 30
		2025	2024
Adjusted EBITDA		$            66,166	$           73,567
Interest expense		32,117	33,326
Interest coverage ratio		2.06 x	2.21 x

Available Funds

The table below calculates the REIT's Available Funds as at June 30, 2025 and December 31, 2024:

		June 30, 2025	December 31, 2024
Cash		$             10,465	$               12,331
Undrawn Credit Facility		32,425	44,830
Available Funds		$            42,890	$               57,161

Forward-looking statements

Certain statements contained in this press release constitute forward-looking information within the meaning of Canadian securities laws. Forward-looking statements are provided for the purposes of assisting the reader in understanding the REIT's financial performance, financial position and cash flows as at and for the periods ended on certain dates and to present information about management's current expectations and plans relating to the future. Readers are cautioned that such statements may not be appropriate for other purposes. Forward-looking information may relate to future results, performance, debt financing, achievements, events, prospects or opportunities for the REIT or the real estate industry and may include statements regarding the financial position, business strategy, budgets, projected costs, capital expenditures, financial results, taxes, distributions, plans, the benefits and renewal of the NCIB, or through other capital programs, the impact of the consolidation (the "Unit Consolidation") and objectives of or involving the REIT. In some cases, forward-looking information can be identified by such terms as "may", "might", "will", "could", "should", "would", "expect", "plan", "anticipate", "believe", "intend", "seek", "aim", "estimate", "target", "goal", "project", "predict", "forecast", "potential", "continue", "likely", or the negative thereof or other similar expressions suggesting future outcomes or events.

Forward-looking statements involve known and unknown risks and uncertainties, which may be general or specific and which give rise to the possibility that expectations, forecasts, predictions, projections or conclusions will not prove to be accurate, assumptions may not be correct and objectives, strategic goals and priorities may not be achieved. A variety of factors, many of which are beyond the REIT's control, affect the operations, performance and results of the REIT and its business, and could cause actual results to differ materially from current expectations of estimated or anticipated events or results. These factors include, but are not limited to: risks and uncertainties related to the Units and trading value of the Units; risks related to the REIT and its business; fluctuating interest rates and general economic conditions, including potential higher levels of inflation; the impact of any tariffs and retaliatory tariffs on the economy, credit, market, operational and liquidity risks generally; occupancy levels and defaults, including the failure to fulfill contractual obligations by tenants; lease renewals and rental increases; the ability to re-lease and secure new tenants for vacant space; the timing and ability of the REIT to acquire or sell certain properties; work-from-home flexibility initiatives on the business, operations and financial condition of the REIT and its tenants, as well as on consumer behavior and the economy in general; the ability to enforce leases, perform capital expenditure work, increase rents, raise capital through the issuance of Units or other securities of the REIT; the benefits of any NCIB program, or through other capital programs; the ability of the REIT to continue to pay distributions in future periods; and obtain mortgage financing on the REIT's properties and for potential acquisitions or to refinance debt at maturity on similar terms. The foregoing is not an exhaustive list of factors that may affect the REIT's forward-looking statements. Other risks and uncertainties not presently known to the REIT could also cause actual results or events to differ materially from those expressed in its forward-looking statements. The reader is cautioned to consider these and other factors, uncertainties and potential events carefully and not to put undue reliance on forward-looking statements as there can be no assurance actual results will be consistent with such forward-looking statements.

Information contained in forward-looking statements is based upon certain material assumptions applied in drawing a conclusion or making a forecast or projection, including management's perception of historical trends, current conditions and expected future developments, as well as other considerations believed to be appropriate in the circumstances. There can be no assurance regarding: (a) work-from-home initiatives on the REIT's business, operations and performance, including the performance of its Units; (b) the REIT's ability to mitigate any impacts related to fluctuating interest rates, potential higher levels of inflation; the impact of any current or future tariffs and the shift to hybrid working; (c) the factors, risks and uncertainties expressed above in regards to the hybrid work environment on the commercial real estate industry and property occupancy levels; (d) credit, market, operational, and liquidity risks generally; (e) the availability of investment opportunities for growth in Canada and the timing and ability of the REIT to acquire or sell certain properties; (f) repurchasing Units under the NCIB; (g) Starlight Group Property Holdings Inc., or any of its affiliates, continuing as asset manager of the REIT in accordance with its current asset management agreement; (h) the benefits of the NCIB, or through other capital programs; (i) the impact of the Unit Consolidation; (j) the availability of debt financing for potential acquisitions or refinancing loans at maturity on similar terms; (k) the ability of the REIT to continue to pay distributions in future periods; and (l) other risks inherent to the REIT's business and/or factors beyond its control which could have a material adverse effect on the REIT.

The forward-looking statements made relate only to events or information as of the date on which the statements are made. Except as specifically required by applicable Canadian law, the REIT undertakes no obligation to update or revise publicly any forward-looking statements, whether as a result of new information, future events or otherwise, after the date on which the statements are made or to reflect the occurrence of unanticipated events.

SOURCE True North Commercial Real Estate Investment Trust

For further information: Daniel Drimmer, Chief Executive Officer, [phone]; or Martin Liddell, Chief Financial Officer, [phone]